You are not logged in.
I think he can act like you can act as a Housing Authority Officer. I don't think a meeting rule is broken by a Parks and Rec. board member looking out for the park. If the kid had reached Mr. Mendoza it would have been a felony because an A & B on someone over 65 is a felony.
Dr. J, I'm not saying that he can't act as a single board member. But What I'm saying is that if these board members from both boards had met at the park with out notifying the public then they violated the opening meeting by-law. Because they had more than one member from the both boards in one area at a time with the same idea of what they were there to do. Was a quorum met at the time they were at the park. If so then they may have violated the open meeting by-law. That is my ?.
"Where I lay my head is home".
Offline
I also would like to say that the police are in a rock and a hard place here. People are saying that they are not checking out the park, but they are. They are kicking everyone out after dark, they are sending them on their way. Anyone of the board members can get the reports that they have to file on this subject.
"Where I lay my head is home".
Offline
Dr.J wrote:I think he can act like you can act as a Housing Authority Officer. I don't think a meeting rule is broken by a Parks and Rec. board member looking out for the park. If the kid had reached Mr. Mendoza it would have been a felony because an A & B on someone over 65 is a felony.
Dr. J, I'm not saying that he can't act as a single board member. But What I'm saying is that if these board members from both boards had met at the park with out notifying the public then they violated the opening meeting by-law. Because they had more than one member from the both boards in one area at a time with the same idea of what they were there to do. Was a quorum met at the time they were at the park. If so then they may have violated the open meeting by-law. That is my ?.
Seeing there was only one member from each board, not representing quorum from either board, I do not see a violation. Fact is there is an apparent problem that requires a resolutuion.
Tom C
Last edited by Tom C (09.08.11 10:28pm)
Where ever you are, you are always here.
Offline
Seeing there was only one member from each board, not representing quorum from either board, I do not see a violation. Fact is there is an apparent problem that requires a resolutuion.
Tom C
Concur.
Here's the reference:
http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/Governmen … 032411.pdf
Ezra 9:3
Offline
If you really want to get technical, field visits that do not involve deliberations are not subject to Open Meeting Law.
As for whether Mr. Mendoza should have approached the teen involved in the incident, absolutely yes. As a member of the Parks and Rec., he was attempting to uphold the rules and regulations of the park for which he is responsible for. It is no different if I were to issue an enforcement order against someone as part of the Conservation Commission. Until something becomes a criminal matter, the police generally do not get involved in enforcement. He was entirely justified in attempting to enforce the rules. It is unfortunate for all involved that it apparently escalated into a physical confronation.
Always Check Your Six!
Offline
I plan on going up to Old Home days & taste of Wachusett. I suspect other BoS members will be there too. I might even engage them in conversation. I sincerely hope I don't get sued for a violation of the Open Meeting Law!
Freedom of Speech is worth fighting for. Time to lock & load.
Offline
I plan on going up to Old Home days & taste of Wachusett. I suspect other BoS members will be there too. I might even engage them in conversation. I sincerely hope I don't get sued for a violation of the Open Meeting Law!
Mr. Connolly, did you receive your copy of the Attorney General's Open Meeting Guide and sign for it on the form provided by the Attorney General on or before January 14th of this year as required by the Attorney General in the above referenced guide? http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/Governmen … 032411.pdf
Page 3, item 2 under the heading "What are the exceptions to the definition of a meeting?" refers. As long as you don't "deliberate" as defined by the Open Meeting Law, you won't get sued. Even if you did, the most that could be done is subject you and the Board to the Open Meeting Law complaint procedure. If you are found to have "willfully" violated the Open Meeting Law, you could be subject to enforcement actions by the Attorney General as shown on page 22. These include mandatory training sessions and/or civil fine up to $1,000.
So, you are safe, as long as the bunch of you don't deliberate!
Ezra 9:3
Offline
This thread is infuriating; both the subject and the deliberations in the thread. I can't tell if you are all trying to be funny or serious.
I have the perfect solution, pave paradise and put up a parking lot.
Am I being funny or serious? Anyway I'm sorry for the rant.
I can't recall in this thread if the parents of the teens are also involved in trying to curb the bad behavior. Would anyone want to approach the parents? Do you think the parents care or would help out?
Offline
Bill Connolly wrote:I plan on going up to Old Home days & taste of Wachusett. I suspect other BoS members will be there too. I might even engage them in conversation. I sincerely hope I don't get sued for a violation of the Open Meeting Law!
Mr. Connolly, did you receive your copy of the Attorney General's Open Meeting Guide and sign for it on the form provided by the Attorney General on or before January 14th of this year as required by the Attorney General in the above referenced guide? http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/Governmen … 032411.pdf
Page 3, item 2 under the heading "What are the exceptions to the definition of a meeting?" refers. As long as you don't "deliberate" as defined by the Open Meeting Law, you won't get sued. Even if you did, the most that could be done is subject you and the Board to the Open Meeting Law complaint procedure. If you are found to have "willfully" violated the Open Meeting Law, you could be subject to enforcement actions by the Attorney General as shown on page 22. These include mandatory training sessions and/or civil fine up to $1,000.
So, you are safe, as long as the bunch of you don't deliberate!
Mr Martin, I was trying to be humerous. I do take the Open Meeting law seriously but I think sometimes it can be taken too far. I was reacting to the suggestion that if 3 members of P&R were at the block dance it might be a violation. It seems to me that all too often in these treads (& in the bars, diners, coffee shops etc.) people see a evil, secret, deliberate attempt to violate the laws or arrange backroom deals when in fact what is really happening is dedicated volunteers are trying to do what they percieve is the right thing to do.
What if 3 members of the BoS run into each other at the Old Home days and mention to each other what a great activity this is for the community. In the conversation we discuss the idea that we need to support it & keep it going well into the future? Is that a deliberation of public policy under the control of the BoS? Is it a violation of the Open Meeting Law? Is that taking things a little too far?
Freedom of Speech is worth fighting for. Time to lock & load.
Offline
We starting to veer off-topic. A better place to discuss the open meeting law would be here:
It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes.
Offline
I don't want to get off the subject of this thread.I was only asking a question to the By-law. Sorry to ask, knowing this subject (central park) is a very hot topic in town. I do want to say...To Bill, I know your a smarter man, not to get into a sticky situation like violating the opening meeting by-law.;)
I will say... maybe this kid can get the same deal those boys did, when they nearly killed the kid? Maybe???
I don't mean to make light of any violence towards anyone, but this problem has gotten way out of hand.
To many people have said to many things, but nothing has gotten done to fix the issue. I still haven't seen one kid or group of kids asked to take part in any discussions to come up with solution, or the kids ideas of what they need? It's like my children... I know what i want for them and what I expect of them in life, but I still ask for their input. Because ultimately they are the ones that will have to live it.
Last edited by fredj (09.09.11 9:55pm)
"Where I lay my head is home".
Offline
Can someone refresh my memory, wasn't there an article on the town warrant this year, submitted by kids, about being able to hang out in Central Park? I can't remember the exact wording, but I remember all the emotive arguments that went into the discussion about how we had to support "our" kids...I believe it had to do with allowing them in Central Park, but can't be sure. I also remember a number of people standing up and lauding these kids for actively taking a role in our democracy. (Personally, I don't think you should get rewarded for doing what you should be doing in the first place, it's how we wound up with the over-entitled, appreciate-nothing, disrespectful deviants to begin with but that is straying from the topic) I'm just wondering if this monster that appears to be running loose in Central Park has been created by our own hand...
Anyone?... Anyone?... Bueller?... Bueller?...
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. -- Hunter Thompson
Offline
Can someone refresh my memory, wasn't there an article on the town warrant this year, submitted by kids, about being able to hang out in Central Park? I can't remember the exact wording, but I remember all the emotive arguments that went into the discussion about how we had to support "our" kids...I believe it had to do with allowing them in Central Park, but can't be sure. I also remember a number of people standing up and lauding these kids for actively taking a role in our democracy.
I believe that had to do with the ban on skateboards at the park. Those kids had made T-shirts and fliers for the public to read, why the ban shouldn't be approved. This is the TM that the kids had been applauded for. They were seated in the balcony that night.
I'm just wondering if this monster that appears to be running loose in Central Park has been created by our own hand...
I would have to say, yes to this... we as a community have not... for many years given the teens a real place to go. We expect these kids to be seen but stay out of the way, till they are needed to be seen. If we expect these teens to be apart of our community we need to include them in it. I have idea.. maybe someone can act on it.Let's have the names of those that have been named by the police made to clean up after olde-home days or block dances. Let's start by talking with the parents of these kids and give them a choice.I think when They see what it takes to pick up, they may feel different when they see a friend destroying the park. Just a thought!!!
"Where I lay my head is home".
Offline
Thanks Fred. I knew it was something like that...
I'm wondering if we should still be lauding those kids now? I think for far too long parents and people have been enabling this kind of behavior by making excuses for these kids. Every time someone starts blathering on about how we can't let a few bad apples ruin the bunch etc. etc. it sends a message to these kids that this kind of behavior is tolerated and propagates the very behavior we are trying to curb. Meanwhile, one of the crowning jewels of the town is being tarnished by ill-bred deviants. (For the record, I voted against this article because I like to think I had the foresight to see where this path would lead... or I could just be bitter and jaded...either way, I like to think I was on the right side of this one.)
I like your idea about having the parents of said individuals clean up after Olde Home Day or a Block Dance, but I'd be surprised to see it gain any traction. Let's face it, if a parent doesn't really have a clue that their kid is one of the troublemakers at the park, should we really expect them to enforce some arbitrary penalty created by the masses?
I know everyone claims the reason for this behavior is because there isn't anything for kids to do in this town, but there hasn't been for years. There wasn't anything to do when I was a kid, but we didn't destroy Central Park or assault elected officials -- allegedly. When I was a kid -- Jesus, I sound like an old man -- the kids who wanted to skate got together, cleaned up Vale Street and built a ramp. Since when does a skate park have to be centrally located? Contrary to what some of these vandals think, the world doesn't revolve around them even if their parents make them think it does... I think until these kids learn some respect and start acting like the fine upstanding citizens some people claim they are they should be relegated to the outskirts of town. Think of it as a time-out or whatever psychobabble is now used to make sure Connor, Brett, Ashleigh-Lynn and Madison (not real names, just some of what I feel are ridiculous names given to kids) don't have their feelings hurt when they get disciplined...Jesus...
Last edited by Rorschach (09.10.11 12:11am)
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled. -- Hunter Thompson
Offline
To add to the TM comment, I believe also that a P&R member asked for us to vote NO on it because of something done wrong or it was worded wrong. I voted No on it, because it wasn't defined enough for me. It said anything with wheels wasn't allowed in Central Park. That meant anything from a lil' scooter some 3yr. old would ride to a wheelchair that a person would need to get around with. They just wanted to ban skateboards, it should have been worded for it to just be skateboards.
Thou, both these videos are funny as hell to see. This is what in the "world" of DCF calls child abuse. The kids are well aware of what anyone can do to them if they act up, this has been building for years.
I still think, if the kids or teens are made to clean up the park or face criminal charges. They would opt for the clean up duties. You can give them a nice bright orange t-shirt to point out that they are there to clean up after themselves.
Last edited by fredj (09.10.11 3:22pm)
"Where I lay my head is home".
Offline
"Teens loitering in Central Park continue to dominate discussion at selectmen's meetings. Last night, Police Chief Mark R. Laverdure suggested removing benches and no-parking signs on the Corcoran House assisted living complex side."
It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes.
Offline
Councilman eyes solution to teens loitering at park by KEN LAHMERS | EDITOR Aurora -- Parks and recreation committee members discussed possible solutions to teenagers loitering at Liz Strahan Park at their Aug. 4 meeting. Ward 1 Councilman Jim Vaca...
http://www.auroraadvocate.com/news/article/5079036
Some good reading here... not only is it affecting us, but in other central parks. I like the ideas that were given... I thought they were watching our Selectmen meetings, with all of our ideas being said or vice-versa. I have an idea here...maybe someone has already thought of it. But, if they do move the benches... why not move them to the middle of the park, to free up the outside of the park. I still haven't heard about the meeting with the kids included. I hear that adults have confronted the teens in the park and have gotten attitude back. So, when is this meeting going to happen. I know Mike D. reads these posts, I did call the Selectmen's office to get info on the sub-committee meeting on this subject and haven't heard back... I know they're busy, but I would like to attend a meeting of the central park sub-committee. Maybe, bounce ideas around with them.
"Where I lay my head is home".
Offline
...maybe someone has already thought of it. But, if they do move the benches... why not move them to the middle of the park, to free up the outside of the park.
This was suggested at our Selectmen's meeting. In response, the Parks and Rec representatives opined that the configuration of the park should not be changed.
Ezra 9:3
Offline
I know, that it was discussed about turning around the benches. So the ones the teens sit on, at the corner of church and walnut are not facing the walkway. But what I was thinking is more to the middle of the park around the x part of it. I didn't hear them talking about the middle of the park. I know that the parks & rec. people have said they didn't want to move anything around. But they need to stop and think, before they complain And I'm not talking about all of the members... just the one's that I have seen complain. If you want to have change, then you have to change yourself... if that makes any sense. I think Mike D. said it best that it doesn't matter how many things that get discussed, if they are not willing to move forward then it just dead ideas being thrown out... or i could be reading more into what he had to say. I know it was said...that if it doesn't work they could always change it back, but they have change to see if it works.
http://www.telegram.com/article/2011100 … /coulter06
I Think, this is an indication to why we have these teens hanging around the park doing nothing... they don't have the money for these trips, or even if they had... they don't have any adults to go with. The P&R need to do something, geared towards teens be it a dance, games (of whatever the teens like)...Have some type of sign up with volunteers to work with them (Teens) to head up something.. the CPD does the block dances, but the dances seem more for the Lil' kids and parents. When you give them something to do, they will do it. I don't want hear... but they have a skate park on vale st., because from what I've heard and read it seems like John Q. has taking over it from the P&R, Cuz it didn't take care of it themselves.
I'm sorry, if this seems like I'm downing the P&R...I think DAN does a great job as a park manager, with what he got. But, if I didn't change my way of thinking in life, I would be in the same place I was before... nowhere. I think they are stuck in their ways as a committee, and don't want to change anything.
I'm not talking about the new member, either. Maybe, he will be the breath of fresh air they need. If they listen to him, he is much younger then they are. I know he may have some great Ideas for them to work with.
OK, here is another idea... towards the end of the school year. We get a "teen forum" at the school, all of them in the auditorium... make it a civics class type of learning and have the kids talk about what they want from the town and work with those ideas. We have to really listen to them, not just say "OK" I like that and not follow through with it. But we have to get on their level, and listen to the needs of the teens. When they have adults telling them, that they are the problem...then they will become the problem. Let them be part the solution. OK, I'm done!!! For now!!!
"Where I lay my head is home".
Offline
Welcome back summer and welcome back the dirt bag kids at the park!!
Offline
Welcome back summer and welcome back the dirt bag kids at the park!!
I don't think they ever left....
Offline
Well the amount of cars I see running those new stop signs will only add to the issue with the kids in the street who assume cars need to stop.
Offline
Well the amount of cars I see running those new stop signs will only add to the issue with the kids in the street who assume cars need to stop.
Dan , where are the new stop signs???
Offline
Well the amount of cars I see running those new stop signs will only add to the issue with the kids in the street who assume cars need to stop.
Guilty as charged! I went right through it yesterday, and then noticed it. It must happen a lot after decades of driving a street and then a new stop sign appears.
Offline
Jesus, I sound like an old man -- the kids who wanted to skate got together, cleaned up Vale Street and built a ramp.
The ramp that group of kids built was one of the best built ramps I had ever seen. What did the town do about it? Ripped it down. That raises another point. Anything that is done for kids in this town requires volunteering, donations, etc... and seems to lack any help from the town. How long was the broke pole going to hang down at Fuller Field? It had been there since October, and a group of citizens had to use their own time, money and resources to fix it. It's great that someone was willing to step up, but shouldn't this be the town's responsibility?
The underlying issue I see in this town is aside from a few gatherings (Olde Home Day, Leprehaun Day, etc...) the town fails to connect with the community in a manner which is non-confrontational. Everything seems to be a fight, and in doing so, the sense of community is lost. Going back generations, there has always been the same reoccuring problem: get out of Central Park and get off High Street.
FredJ makes a great point, involve the youth in some sort of think tank to see what they want. I have spoke to many kids about the Vale Street "skate park", and the all have the same comment: boring. Did anyone take a moment to ask the kids what they would like to see down there? Did anyone take the time to go to research skate parks, and maybe see what surrounding communities did? They throw it on an old tennis court, that doesn't have lights. The BOS and P&R seem to lack the ability to think outside of the box...just take a look at the Selectmen's meeting when someone from the P&R had the brilliant idea to remove the benches from the park in order to discourage the kids.
It would be nice if the P&R was thinking about ideas on how to get more kids to go to the skate park, use the basketball courts, use the ball fields, or maybe even a dog park! In the meantime, the townspeople should stop voting based on who their cousin/friend is, and vote on who is going to get the job done.
Last edited by Same Ol' Same Ol' (04.01.12 11:45am)
Offline
