You are not logged in.
Went to the Park yesterday, found broken branch off one of the young trees, and graffiti painted on the sidewalk near the walnut, church street side, crazy messages, so we have come to this, no respect for the taxpayers of this town, who have love this beautiful park. What gives you the right to destroy it?
It seems to be the same group of kids all the time... The Police and everyone else know who they are, I have no idea why nothing gets done about it..These few are ruining it for all the other kids who DON'T deface the park and are there to enjoy it like everyone else.
"I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done."
-Lucille Ball-
Offline
True Mariah, it is a shame, that a few ruin it for everyone else. Hope it gets resolved, before, the park gets ruined.
Offline
I was at the park the other afternoon for several hours, there was a group of teens who were there they were just stilling on the benches not bothering anyone, i was acyually speaking to one for about 30 minutes. I see no problem with teens hanging out there. You are always going to get some trouble makers but dont punish thegood bunch
Offline
I hate the ones that ride bikes in the road right at my car as if they own the center of the road and don't care. Cute move when someone does get his sooner or later.
Offline
"Vandalism and other problems attributed to teens loitering in Central Park prompted selectmen last night to ask Police Chief Mark R. Laverdure to attend their next meeting."
It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes.
Offline
Five cruisers (1 unmarked), five officers and the chief at the park today to hand out two "no trespassing " warrants to two teenagers. This happened after an officer, who had been parked in his cruiser across the street for over an hour watching them, witnessed a mother and her child apparently being block by 2 out of the 15-18 Kids present. All but a few were in the grass or on a bench. What the officer couldn't have known from his spot was that the mother never ask to get by, and the kids were oblivious to his presence (typical teenagers). When the officer approached the kids and started to accuse them of loitering, 2 kids spoke up in their own defense.....the two who got the warrants. No one was skateboarding at the time, and there was no loud profanity (except the officer towards the kids). I find having an officer babysitting the PUBLIC park in the daytime, at his pay scale a waste of tax payer money and town resources (the cruiser) during these tough economic times of belt tightening.. The kids wouldn't have gotten warrants, aside from the fact that they DARED speak for themselves. You'd think there was an armed robbery going on with the show of force by the department. Seems like intimidation to me. It's apparent in this town that the rights of the voting elderly FAR out weigh the civil rights of the young non-voters. Civil rights shouldn't be dependent on ones age.
Last edited by Joe G (08.02.11 9:44pm)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it's broke, fix it only if you can't live without it.
Offline
Five cruisers (1 unmarked), five officers and the chief at the park today to hand out two "no trespassing " warrants to two teenagers. This happened after an officer, who had been parked in his cruiser across the street for over an hour watching them, witnessed an elderly person apparently being block by 2 out of the 15-18 Kids present. All but a few were in the grass or on a bench. What the officer couldn't have known from his spot was that the elderly never ask to get by, and the kids were oblivious to his presence (typical teenagers). When the officer approached the kids and started to accuse them of loitering, 2 kids spoke up in their own defense.....the two who got the warrants. No one was skateboarding at the time, and there was no loud profanity (except the officer towards the kids). I find having an officer babysitting the PUBLIC park in the daytime, at his pay scale a waste of tax payer money and town resources (the cruiser) during these tough economic times of belt tightening.. The kids wouldn't have gotten warrants, aside from the fact that they DARED speak for themselves. You'd think there was an armed robbery going on with the show of force by the department. Seems like intimidation to me. It's apparent in this town that the rights of the voting elderly FAR out weigh the civil rights of the young non-voters. Civil rights shouldn't be dependent on ones age.
No offense, Joe, but you seemed biased in this. Five officers to deal with 15-18 teens doesn't sound outrageous to me. Also, it seems like all I've been hearing for months is that we need more of a police presence around the park, and now that there was one, they're criticized for it? As for two teens speaking up in their own defense, I bet you have no idea what they said. I'm sure you know one or both of them, and they probably told you what they said, but I'm sure the officer would say that they were being confrontational. When I was young, if a cop said "move along", I got my ass out of there.... I didn't talk back. I willing to be there was no respect for authority there.
Offline
I got it from several young witnesses, 5 of them in fact, and posted shortly afterward. None of them were the two. However, after going out for ice cream with my dream woman tonight, I did run into one of the principles. He had the same story, with the exception that it was a mother with her child (I assumed , wrongly, that it was an elderly person) and he was warned he was going to get a warrant.....the two didn't actually get one. It wouldn't matter if 100 kids had the same story. All the officer has to say is the person was confrontational and his version would have more weight with the adults in a court of law. There was about 18 kids in the park at the time, but only 7 in the immediate vicinity who were surrounded by all the force. I don't know your age, I assume younger than me. I too had the police tell groups I'd be in to move along in my teens. The police were respectful in the way they did it then, and got respect in return. Now, did the police in your time call the group you were in a bunch of pieces of sh*t to you faces then, like they were told today? Respect goes both ways. Don't whine about kids swearing, if adults in authority swear at them. Don't hold block dances in front of the Corcoran house one night, and tell the kids they are disturbing the peace the other six nights. Hypocritical attitudes by adults is all I see.
Last edited by Joe G (08.02.11 9:42pm)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it's broke, fix it only if you can't live without it.
Offline
I hate the ones that ride bikes in the road right at my car as if they own the center of the road and don't care. Cute move when someone does get his sooner or later.
Hate is a strong word.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it's broke, fix it only if you can't live without it.
Offline
The park is for everyone!!! So when a mother and child want to walk in the park pathways they should not have to be blocked from doing so!!! You cry for the kids freedom. Guess what we all have it and we have a right to good order. So if the kids want to cause a problem they can go to court and deal with it. If they don't they can sit and walk in the park like everyone else.
Offline
JoeG who were the 5 witnesses? Were they friends/part of the group there? I would be interested in what the mother with the child has to say.
Offline
Now, did the police in your time call the group you were in a bunch of pieces of sh*t to you faces then, like they were told today? Respect goes both ways. Don't whine about kids swearing, if adults in authority swear at them. Don't hold block dances in front of the Corcoran house one night, and tell the kids they are disturbing the peace the other six nights. Hypocritical attitudes by adults is all I see.
Joe,
I generally agree with you on most issues but in this case, I guess, we will cross swords.
I have walked through Central Park and dealt with the "young adults" you describe.
When I was a kid a police officer never had the chance to call me a "piece of sh*t" because I was out of there before it got to that point. I would NEVER confront a police officer. It just wasn't done. It didn't matter if I was right - they were the authority at that point in time and my job was to move along smartly.
The '60s blurred or erased the concept of the connection between "accountability", "responsibility" and "authority". You might have grown up through that era. Bottom line is that the Police have the "authority" to tell you to do almost anything. They are "responsible" for carrying out the law and are held "accountable" (should they abuse their authority) for their actions by a court of law; your comment about "weight" notwithstanding.
Moreover, if I ever swore at a Police Officer I don't even want to think of my fate, even if I managed to make it home alive.
The kids in Central Park need to abide by the rules of Central Park, as posted. While I don't agree with all the rules posted, they are in place as a result of the grant of the land on which Central Park is located.
The kids also need to abide by common courtesy - if you are standing on the sidewalk and a person older/frail/burdened approaches, you should give way and not force them to alter course and walk on the grass.
As for Mr. Mnz's comment about hating "the ones that ride bikes in the road right at my car..." I will say that "hate" is not a strong word. In the context that he said it he, like me, would "hate" to run over any of these kids that have deliberately placed themselves in danger and EXPECT me to maneuver to avoid them, thereby potentially saving their lives. If they don't have enough respect for their safety/well being/lives to avoid an obviously hazardous situation and willing depend on someone else's skill to guarantee their safety, maybe they should be taught a lesson by receiving the appropriate response from the ones forced to save their sorry skins.
In my day, if I ran my bike in the path of Mrs. Jones car, my parents would get a call from Mrs. (probably Mr.) Jones and I would lose my bike privlidges for a couple of weeks. I don't want to even consider what would happen if I called one of my neighbors about the actions/conduct of one of their children. So, the drivers/adults have little recourse but to deal with the children as they would an adult, hence the resort to profanity. I don't agree or condone it but it is a natural reaction when no other outlet exists.
Not all the kids hanging out in Central Park are cretins but some of them are bordering on thugs. Those bordering on thugs need to be dealt with and the others are in need of some parenting about respecting those who are older/frail/burdened.
Last edited by jmartin291 (08.03.11 12:48am)
Ezra 9:3
Offline
Excellent post, JMartin!!!
Offline
Five cruisers (1 unmarked), five officers and the chief at the park today to hand out two "no trespassing " warrants to two teenagers. This happened after an officer, who had been parked in his cruiser across the street for over an hour watching them, witnessed a mother and her child apparently being block by 2 out of the 15-18 Kids present. All but a few were in the grass or on a bench. What the officer couldn't have known from his spot was that the mother never ask to get by, and the kids were oblivious to his presence (typical teenagers). When the officer approached the kids and started to accuse them of loitering, 2 kids spoke up in their own defense.....the two who got the warrants. No one was skateboarding at the time, and there was no loud profanity (except the officer towards the kids). I find having an officer babysitting the PUBLIC park in the daytime, at his pay scale a waste of tax payer money and town resources (the cruiser) during these tough economic times of belt tightening.. The kids wouldn't have gotten warrants, aside from the fact that they DARED speak for themselves. You'd think there was an armed robbery going on with the show of force by the department. Seems like intimidation to me. It's apparent in this town that the rights of the voting elderly FAR out weigh the civil rights of the young non-voters. Civil rights shouldn't be dependent on ones age.
Joe, you make it sound as if this whole thing came out of nowhere without any warning. This is a problem that has been playing out for months now. Anyone would have to be oblivious to not realize this was the direction this was headed if the kids continued to loiter. Personally, it seems to me like these kids were challenging the police to do something about it by continuing to hang around despite the very public objection.
No offense, but to act all indignant now that the police finally intervened just falls a little flat with me.
Offline
@emt8672
First of all, I didn't judge them by appearance, but I did write it that way. Look... first of all, these "kids" were swearing and smoking at what appears to be abut 15 years of age. That alone does qualify me to judge. Secondly, hanging out does NOT in any way break any laws in my book, but when you have several groups, all smoking and swearing and wearing clothing that only means you are a rule breaker (and honestly emo means just that) then yes, you should not be in an area such as a public park where others want to enjoy the place.
I have three young children, and if I walk through the park when even one of these kids are hanging out, I know 100% of the time from experience (and believe me I've given them more than several chances) will swear and smoke in front of my kids, I will say I've had enough of this generational crap of being stupid and doing nothing more than smoking and not given a crap about others.
And to top it off, one of the groups broke a beer bottle (dead center of the park) on our first night last season at the block dance. The police picked it up, and kicked what they could into the grass, then without even checking on the kids walked back to the police station to enjoy the music. The issue wasn't the cops, they even know with all the crazy kids roaming around there is no way to find who was drinking during a kids event. That sir is SAD!
And I'm guessing with a handle such as 'EMT' you may be one, therefore you perhaps have seen one or several cases in which these kids have gotten to drunk and done some stupid crap.
I just want to say as a young adult, twenty now, who has grown up in this town, you guys keep complaining about these "thugs" that are littering the park, but what are you actually doing about it. During my High School years I was hanging around the park as well, and do you want to know why? First off I don't skateboard, so the pathetic excuse for a skate park down on vale street was a no go. Second, when I wasn't at practice for either the sport I was a part of, or the drama club, there was nothing else to do. So I hung out around the park, and I guarantee I have sworn there, and since I smoked in High School, I was doing that there as well. But when I was there I was courteous to any one else who is there. So maybe you just ran into the wrong "thugs", because I've been doing Community Service for this town since my freshmen year in High School and attend a great University, so I can tell you right now I am not part of "this generational crap of being stupid and doing nothing more than smoking and not given a crap about others." Half of the time no adult even says anything to you, because just like DanMNZ, they see a kid smoking a cigarette and standing in one spot, it's end of the world.
So maybe what the problem here isn't the kids who are doing everything wrong but all of you who set the standard. There isn't a day I am in a Supermarket and I don't hear an adult man, or woman, swear or do the same thing you say these kids are doing. You think because these "emo" kids dress the way they do they mean trouble, but the way some people dress in this town, that are older, I wouldn't want to talk to them either. All these kids are doing is following the steps you are leading them in, and if there's nothing to do, kids are going to want to be like adults and drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes and that's when this behavior sets in.
You guys writing on this forum are either the parents of these kids, or parents of the children who are going to take their place. There's nothing in this town for the younger generation to do, there's about twenty bars, but nothing someone twenty one can be apart of, and I've learned first hand about this, and if it's anyone's fault its the older generation. You just denied a proposal that took a lot of money away from the school so you could save about a hundred dollars a household (I believe), and from what I'm told the school is going to be losing its Junior Varsity sports team and Middle School sports. So you say you want kids to be doing something other than hanging out around Central Park, well let me tell you it was such a smart move to take away their sports, because that's all they are going to do now.
Sorry to just go off on this rant but you got to understand I'm tired of seeing the town talk about this subject over and over. Maybe if parents were around more, or talk to their kids about this sort of thing it wouldn't be like this. Handing out trespassing warrants, or whatever those are, is ridiculous and to waste the town's money to have police officers babysit kids at a public park is stupid. It's good to see that we want to pay police officers to play babysitter but don't want our kids of this community to have a decent education. And you all wonder why other towns have a negative view of Clinton.
(Oh and DanMNZ I really don't think you know what "Emo" really means if you really think it "means you are a rule breaker (and honestly emo means just that)", sounds pretty ignorant to me considering you are on a computer right now and could google it. Pretty sure that wouldn't be the definition.)
Offline
My question is about the comment I always hear:
"There's nothing in this town for the younger generation to do".
I've been hearing this for years, but what is there for kids to do in other towns? I know a big city will have lots of things to do, but what do kids in Sterling or Lancaster do instead of just hanging out? It seems our town gives them at least one option with St John's Gym, even though I know that's for the somewhat younger kids. I really am just curious.
I agree with your comment about the override not passing, which we know is going to get rid of JV sports, resulting in more kids not having anything to do....but keep in mind that there were 40% of us who voted in favor of paying more in taxes to prevent this from happening.
Offline
I just want to say as a young adult, twenty now, who has grown up in this town, you guys keep complaining about these "thugs" that are littering the park, but what are you actually doing about it. During my High School years I was hanging around the park as well, and do you want to know why? First off I don't skateboard, so the pathetic excuse for a skate park down on vale street was a no go. Second, when I wasn't at practice for either the sport I was a part of, or the drama club, there was nothing else to do. So I hung out around the park, and I guarantee I have sworn there, and since I smoked in High School, I was doing that there as well. But when I was there I was courteous to any one else who is there. So maybe you just ran into the wrong "thugs", because I've been doing Community Service for this town since my freshmen year in High School and attend a great University, so I can tell you right now I am not part of "this generational crap of being stupid and doing nothing more than smoking and not given a crap about others." Half of the time no adult even says anything to you, because just like DanMNZ, they see a kid smoking a cigarette and standing in one spot, it's end of the world.
So maybe what the problem here isn't the kids who are doing everything wrong but all of you who set the standard. There isn't a day I am in a Supermarket and I don't hear an adult man, or woman, swear or do the same thing you say these kids are doing. You think because these "emo" kids dress the way they do they mean trouble, but the way some people dress in this town, that are older, I wouldn't want to talk to them either. All these kids are doing is following the steps you are leading them in, and if there's nothing to do, kids are going to want to be like adults and drink alcohol and smoke cigarettes and that's when this behavior sets in.
You guys writing on this forum are either the parents of these kids, or parents of the children who are going to take their place. There's nothing in this town for the younger generation to do, there's about twenty bars, but nothing someone twenty one can be apart of, and I've learned first hand about this, and if it's anyone's fault its the older generation. You just denied a proposal that took a lot of money away from the school so you could save about a hundred dollars a household (I believe), and from what I'm told the school is going to be losing its Junior Varsity sports team and Middle School sports. So you say you want kids to be doing something other than hanging out around Central Park, well let me tell you it was such a smart move to take away their sports, because that's all they are going to do now.
Sorry to just go off on this rant but you got to understand I'm tired of seeing the town talk about this subject over and over. Maybe if parents were around more, or talk to their kids about this sort of thing it wouldn't be like this. Handing out trespassing warrants, or whatever those are, is ridiculous and to waste the town's money to have police officers babysit kids at a public park is stupid. It's good to see that we want to pay police officers to play babysitter but don't want our kids of this community to have a decent education. And you all wonder why other towns have a negative view of Clinton.
(Oh and DanMNZ I really don't think you know what "Emo" really means if you really think it "means you are a rule breaker (and honestly emo means just that)", sounds pretty ignorant to me considering you are on a computer right now and could google it. Pretty sure that wouldn't be the definition.)
Are you denying that there is a real problem being caused by some at the park? I do not believe that those not responsible have been targeted in the least (I'm not talking about an occasional cuss word, I mean being intimidating and outright disrespectful to other visitors). Maybe you should redirect some of your blame towards those few in your own generation who ruin it for the rest.
Last edited by MP (08.06.11 1:25am)
Offline
"Problems in Central Park continue. Esteban Mendoza, a member of the Parks and Recreation Commission — and a grandfather — last night recounted to selectmen how he was assaulted in the park by an unruly teenager while trying to enforce a loitering ban last week."
It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes.
Offline
Why in the world would Mr. Mendoza feel the need to "enforce" anything? That is what the police are for.
If Mr. Mendoza really did get "assaulted" those teens should have been arrested-but looks like they were only given trespassing tickets. So maybe just a tad of over exaggeration is happening here (as it has been since this story has started).
This is getting more and more ridiculous. Old and young both need to learn how to get along. And, as I said before, if there are some kids breaking the law...the police should be dealing with them. PERIOD
"I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done."
-Lucille Ball-
Offline
Mariah,
There was a discussion at a previous Board of Selectmen's meeting about this. Forgive me if my recollection is faulty but this is what I took away from the discussion.
The rules governing conduct in Central Park can not, for some reason, be "enforced" by the Police Department. A member of the Parks and Rec must first attempt to "enforce" the rules. Note that "enforcement" does not require physical contact; merely telling someone to "knock it off" is sufficient. If the person subject to this "enforcement" does not cease and desist, then the Parks and Rec can ask the person to leave. If they don't leave, they are THEN trespassing.
I'm guessing that it is the difference between a "rule" established by a board/committee/department verses a "law" of the Town, State and/or Federal government. The Police enforce "laws" not "rules".
For example, there is a Parks & Rec "rule" that you can't play football in Central Park (yes, I know it was part of the "grant" of the land to the town). There is no "law" against playing football. So, first a Parks and Rec person must tell the football players to stop playing football because it violates the park rules. If the folks don't stop, the Parks and Rec person can tell them to leave. If they won't leave, the Parks and Rec person can call the Police and make a trespassing complaint. Trespassing is a violation of a law on which the Police can take action.
Last edited by jmartin291 (09.08.11 1:32pm)
Ezra 9:3
Offline
Mr. Mendoza is on the parks and rec commission and has every right to point out violations in the park. This attack is an illustration that some of those kids who hang out in the park are real meat heads! Mr. Mendoza is in his late 60's what kind of crappy kid attacks a man in his 60's!
Offline
Apparently there was a meeting of a "Central Park Committee" (no public meeting notice posted but whatever...) that came up with a recommendation to the Board of Selectmen to purchase a camera to surveil Central Park. The cost was estimated at between $8,000 and $15,000. We will might see this on the next Town Meeting warrant.
I hope that this camera, if purchased, will have the ability to surveil all of Central Park. Just pointing it at the corner of Church and Walnut will only make those currently loitering at that corner move to a different corner.
More to the point, though - what is expected to be gained by this? The Police do not get involved in enforcing the "rules" of Central Park. If they see a violation of the Law I suppose they can dispatch an officer but will the camera's images be sufficiently detailed to bring charges against a miscreant?
It will be interesting to see how they intend to protect the camera, itself, from being vandalized as well.
Also to be considered - what are the ongoing life-cycle maintenance costs associated with this system and what is its serviceable life expectancy? The cost of a system like this (or any other piece of hardware) is not just the purchase price. If this comes to a Town Meeting vote the voters should demand to know the expected life cycle costs associated with the system and make their decision on that number, not the $8,000 to $15,000 purchase price.
Ezra 9:3
Offline
Mr. Mendoza is on the parks and rec commission and has every right to point out violations in the park. This attack is an illustration that some of those kids who hang out in the park are real meat heads! Mr. Mendoza is in his late 60's what kind of crappy kid attacks a man in his 60's!
If there was an attack (they used the world assault btw) The police would have every right to have arrested those involved. But, there was only a ticket for trespassing, no "assault" arrest.
Calling it an "attack" adds fuel to an already very over exaggerated fire and shows that sides are being taken before a lot of the facts are known.
"I'd rather regret the things I've done than regret the things I haven't done."
-Lucille Ball-
Offline
I know of the kid involved. Yes, he was arrested. I have talked to him, and he said he didn't hit Mr. M.. Also My middle child was there and said he hadn't touched him. It was the night of the last block dance that was canceled. It will be up to the courts to decided what will happen. Personally the kid is a good kid, respectful to his mom and grandmother. So this is very unusual for him.
But I do have a ?. If you have had more than one board member at the park with out notifying the public, isn't that a violation of the open meeting by-laws and if the B.O.S and the P&R C. have been at the park at the same time isn't that a violation.
"Where I lay my head is home".
Offline
I think he can act like you can act as a Housing Authority Officer. I don't think a meeting rule is broken by a Parks and Rec. board member looking out for the park. If the kid had reached Mr. Mendoza it would have been a felony because an A & B on someone over 65 is a felony.
I know of the kid involved. Yes, he was arrested. I have talked to him, and he said he didn't hit Mr. M.. Also My middle child was there and said he hadn't touched him. It was the night of the last block dance that was canceled. It will be up to the courts to decided what will happen. Personally the kid is a good kid, respectful to his mom and grandmother. So this is very unusual for him.
But I do have a ?. If you have had more than one board member at the park with out notifying the public, isn't that a violation of the open meeting by-laws and if the B.O.S and the P&R C. have been at the park at the same time isn't that a violation.
Offline
